Fat Bøttømed Girls

[Bob Noodat]

Another stupid question: Having looked at a lot of pictures of Albin 25s, I notice that North American boats seem to have their bottoms, well, a bit saggy. They seem to ride in the water somewhat like an old Chevy Biscayne with your mother-in-law and her two sisters in the back seat and your skinny father-in-law driving. I won't show any pictures to illustrate, because someone is bound to be offended. By contrast, European A25s seem to ride in general more level.

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So my naïve question is, are the European boats indeed riding more level, or is this something to do with how the waterline is painted over here as opposed to over there, Over there, Send the word, Over there.....

[motthediesel]

I'm not an A-25 owner or expert, but I believe that's an early/late thing, not a Euro/North America thing. The early boats have a more "sailboat shaped" stern, with curving buttock lines that rise to the transom. In the later boats, the hull is flattened out, or even curved down a bit heading to the transom.

This was done to prevent "squatting" at somewhat above hull speed, making it closer to a "semi-planning" hull. I would guess that an artifact of that might be a little more buoyancy in the stern, which might be what you are seeing.

To continue with the Queen theme "Watch out for those beauties, oh yeah"

[Bob Noodat]

Hmm, I'm never seeing buoyancy at the stern, rather buoyancy at the bow. The waterline paint is often 6" higher in the water in NA boats.

[dkirsop]

The waterline paint often follows the lower chine giving the appearance of a high bow. The stern wake is a better indicator of a squat as even minor settling will significantly increase drag and in consequence the wake.

[Bob Noodat]

The waterline paint often follows the lower chine giving the appearance of a high bow. The stern wake is a better indicator of a squat as even minor settling will significantly increase drag and in consequence the wake.

Nope, that ain't it. I have not noticed one that follows the chine. That would indeed be quita a deviation from the waterline. I'll take the risk of illustrating my point with 2 examples that I think won't offend forum regulars.

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As you see, and these are far from being radical examples, the waterline paint is nowhere near the chine, if I am following you, but is much higher at the bow than at the stern.

Now, I suspect that a frugal Scandinavian or Dutchman might be tempted to think that all the excess gear owned by us spendthrift North Americans and stashed in the often unemployed aft cabin is one reason for this. But, an adjustment of the paint line would make it visually less odd. Note that on the European boats illustrated earlier, the waterline paint is clearly visible all the way to the stern. To me, that is how it should be. Why have a waterline, and not have it follow the water line?

[dkirsop]

Yep, they are definitely dragging their tails. Especially the first boat!

[DesertAlbin736]

Probably stern heavy from overloading. One has a dinghy hanging off on the back, which of course we do too. Always conscious about weight of gear we stow in the aft cabin which is where we put luggage & miscellaneous other stuff on extended cruises.

Such a nauti nanny!

Hmmm, come to think of it, "Nauti Nanny" might make a good boat name.

[Bob Noodat]

It strikes me as regional. Anyway, it's obviously irrelevant. I get a little analytic over such things. Or some similar word.

[nebulatech]

Bob, I love that you used the Swedish ø in your post...

Hmmm, come to think of it, "Nauti Nanny" might make a good boat name.

I still haven't named my boat!

I agree with DA that weight distribution probably is a factor. The dry weight of the hull is specified as 3500lb. Without engine, I imagine, as dry weight has been confirmed to be higher than that. The engine is fairly centered, so I don't think a difference of engine would have a big influence. However, I have noticed that without any engine, this is a very light boat for its size and design, so I can imagine a few hundred pounds at the extreme ends could have an effect. Some owners carry over 100' of chain in their bow. This would be on the order of 150 - 200 lbs. Also, as has been pointed out, the deluxe version has more buoyancy aft, allowing it to hold more weight.

I also agree there may be an optical illusion created by differing boot stripe locations. I know my boot stripe is way too high in the bow, following the chine all the way up. I'll be correcting that.

Is there any chance that the boats underway are going bow up due to their forward progress? Little boats do that, but I don't expect A25's doing under 7 knots would go bow up.

[WillieC]

Since this is the interweb where I can make up anything... here goes:

The newer hulls have the super sexy recurve at the stern to help bring the bow down underway. I hear, people are saying, who knows, etc. that the early hulls had a tendency to nose up without said recurve.

Still, loading is everything on a 25’ boat as previously noted. Like I care a lot at 3 quarts per hour. But I will consider moving the beer much closer to where I sleep. That spare prop and heat exchanger in the tiller compartment may have to bunk with the Starfleet Commander.

[Bob Noodat]

So let us say that you add a significant weight aft. One thing might be you normally run with a a dinghy on davits, as DA points out. Or a heavier engine than she came with, for example. (Although probably the originals were heavier than higher horsepower modern replacements.) Or, I see that many North American boats have those heavy-looking BC hardtops, which are rare in Europe. But, for whatever reason, let us say you have added significant weight aft and this has altered the fore-aft trim, is there any virtue to adding weight forward to re-establish trim? Maybe it could be like trimming the legs on a 4 legged table, you'd keep adjusting until you'd end up with 3" of freeboard!

The pictures I see of NA boats it seems that whether steaming ahead or moored, they appear to have the stern down and bow up, or at least the waterline has been painted wrong! (Ah! Bootstripe.... thank you nebulatech.)

Pity there are no European owners to chime in on this, I'd be very interested to hear their opinion.

[WillieC]

To add more ado about not much, my stock in trade, here are a couple pics of the Inestimable WillieC. (Inestimable because all the receipts haven't been totaled up yet.)

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These pics were taken before loading contraband to deliver to our socialist comrades up north.

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Note the rakish lines of the BC hardtop, sort of like a whale spoiler tail on a VW bug. Added weight of soggy PNW canvas, 1" marine plywood swimstep soaked in 2-part epoxy paint and bilgekote, styrofoam throw ring, and aft support of bird-deterrent, 3/4" pvc electrical conduit, all contribute to the aft sag.

Not a great deal of thought, calculation, or hand-wringing went into our paint job. I just matched what was there.

Interesting that it doesn't take much chop to make it look like a whole lot of thinking went into the lines...not likely. But it does illustrate the bouncy nature of life on the A25. In these pics, the bow eye is connected to our mooring ball, which adds to the illusion of evenness, pulling the bow down in time with the chop. I guess one has to consider what waterline one is after. As long as most of the saltwater stays on the outside, I'm good.

She is due for more bottom paint as it doesn't take long for the marine beard to start growing. First year was great, second less so. Two days in on the recent sea trials foretold unimaginable slime deposition if I let it go any longer. This is Pettit Hydrocoat Eco, same as DA. I understand this is about par. Hoping for better, but it is a boat...

[DesertAlbin736]

The pictures I see of NA boats it seems that whether steaming ahead or moored, they appear to have the stern down and bow up, or at least the waterline has been painted wrong! (Ah! Bootstripe.... thank you nebulatech.)

We don't have very many pictures of our boat under way, but here's a few:
This one on our first Pacific NW cruise in 2014, inbound heading for Ladysmith on Vancouver Island with our old dinghy mounted on snap davits. That time we were cruising with my sister in law & her husband who brought their fast 25 foot Bayliner sedan cruiser up from Oregon & had gotten ahead of us & snapped this picture as we came in. This is all the wake we make at our 6.5 knot cruising speed. This is pretty much the configuration we had as it was when we first bought the boat, cheesy lexan pop top over the wheelhouse opening, canvas cockpit cover with no side windows, Boatex dinghy on snap davits.

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We met up with the BIL & SIL again last year, rafted up in Fishermans Bay on Lopez in the San Juans for July 4th & later docked for a night on Wallace Island in the Gulf Islands.

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This one was in front of Chatterbox Falls, Princess Louisa Inlet, Sunshine Coast, BC in 2016. No dinghy on the back (we had lost it in our infamous dinghy incident off Nelson Island). By then we had the new f/g hardtop & reworked cockpit canvas.

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This is one of my favorites, taken on the way up to Chatterbox

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That picture in front of the falls and the one under way were taken by our dear friends from Flagstaff, AZ who hauled their own O'Day sailboat up from AZ & cruised with us. This guy Charles is a renaissance man, who besides being a die hard sailor and avid amateur photographer, was once employed as a steam locomotive engineer and driver on the Grand Canyon Railway and a machinist with his own lathe & CNC milling machine in his home workshop and built a working scale model steam locomotive.

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This one from 2018 Desolation Sound cruise, with sail rig installed & Gig Harbor dinghy on Garhauer lift davits. A little grainy due to distance & telephoto zoom. (photo by WillieC)

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Most recent one on Lake Pleasant last month when we served as committee boat for our Lake Pleasant Sailing Club "Sweetheart Race" event. This one we're down by the stern partly because our passengers were toward the back of the boat & we had a slight starboard list because our fuel tank was down to about 1/4. We didn't have a lot of weight in the aft cabin since we were only out for the weekend. In this case we were moving very slowly since we'd pulled up alongside one of the racers when the wind was near calm.

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Our passengers who served as race skippers & judges were the same couple that owns a summer rental beach house in Rhode Island where we and a dozen other club members spent a week for free in June 2015 and again in September, 2017 (actually helped out with some maintenance chores while there).
The highlight of the 2015 stay, which was when we took our boat back east, was this lobster cookout dinner for 12. This is what we mean by "La Dolce Vita".

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[nebulatech]

In my months of lurking, this is my first glimpse of the outside of the WillieC. She looks nice. I love the sun visor. I've been mulling a design to refit one on my boat since I plan to repaint anyway. Any chance you know the overhang measurement? Is it enough? Too much?

[Bob Noodat]

The usual great DA pictures. Love the Chatterbox pix.
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Here is an actual dialogue from a small fishing boat off the southwest coast of England, crewed by two local Devon fishermen. It is written semi-phonetically. It must be read very slowly, since the locals are habitually very slow-spoken.

A. Oi zay, we zeem ter be taking on worter.
B. Oh? Izzat boi the sturrn or boi the be-oo?
A. Well, Oi'll check that boi lookin' at our nooly painted worterloin.
B. Good oideer. Eeyou go roitahedd.
A. Eer Oi go.
..........
B. Wot's the verdict, then?
A. 'Old on a mo. That's the be-oo end.
..........
B.Yer moit getabitava moovon.
A. Jess 'old yer 'orses..........  Roit, that's the sturrn. Oi'd say we woz takin' on worter boi the be-oo.
B. Aar, well. It's bit loit ne-oo, inn-ett?
A. Woy-zaat, then?
B. Best get yer harrms a-movin', or yer'll dreynd.

PS. I agree. The WillieC looks just right.