• Welcome to https://albinowners.net, the new home of Albin Owners Group!
• You will need to log in here, and you may want to bookmark this site. If you don't remember your password, use the I forgot my password link to reset it.
• All content has been transferred from our previous site. Digests will be enabled soon.
Contact Us if you have any questions or notice a problem. If you're not receiving our email, include a phone number where we can text you.

A Schilling rudder

Albin's "power cruisers"
Post Reply
motthediesel
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
Home Port: Thousand Islands NY

A Schilling rudder

Post by motthediesel »

For the other driveline work I was doing on our A27, I had to drop the rudder in order to pull the shaft. Not one to ever "leave well enough alone" I decided to take the opportunity to modify the rudder. Anyone who operates a single screw boat is always interested in increased control, right?

One limiting factor in inboard engine maneuvering is the "stall angle" of the rudder, usually around 35 degrees. At that point and beyond, flow detaches from the back side of the rudder, and it will no longer provide turning force. This stalling can be delayed, allowing the rudder to function effectively at greater angles of attack, by several means. Articulated rudders have a moving plate on the trailing edge, sort of a "rudder on a rudder" that acts just like the flaps on an aircraft wing. Those work great, but they are complicated, and rely on moving parts that are underwater and so, difficult to service. A simpler means of achieving the same result is a Schilling rudder, also known as a "thistle" or "fishtail" type.

These use a modified "V" tail that acts to promote smooth, attached flow under maneuvering, and can work nearly as well as the articulated type. The down side is that they do add some drag, so you usually not see them used on boats designed to operate at planing or near planing speeds. For our 7.5kt cruising speed though, the drag losses should be negligible.

I should say too that what I am building here is not a "true" Schilling rudder, as they have a concave shape through the middle of the foil section. As I am just modifying the original straight-sided rudder, that won't be the case here. As I understand it however, that shape is only added to minutely decrease drag, and not to influence it's steering ability.

To work best, these rudders also used end plates, top and bottom, so we'll start with those. I made paper patterns and cut them from some old fiberglass decking I had saved from a previous project.

Image

Here it is on the rudder:

Image

Those will be bonded on with thickened epoxy, next we'll be forming the "fishtails".

TBC
motthediesel
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
Home Port: Thousand Islands NY

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by motthediesel »

I looked around in my shop for something to use to form the V tail, and I spied a length of 4" PVC thin-wall soil pipe, and I figured that it might serve nicely. I cut it to length, then ripped three sections from it with a bandsaw. The trailing edge of the rudder measured 3/4" thick, so I used a bit of plywood to hold them in place for gluing with pipe cement. Here you see the glue-up, using some more PVC pipe scraps -- for clamps this time.

Image

After that it was screwed onto the rudder with small SS flathead screws, and filled with foam at the same time.

Image

TBC
motthediesel
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
Home Port: Thousand Islands NY

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by motthediesel »

After that, it was covered in 10oz cloth in epoxy resin, and all the corners were filleted with thickened epoxy.

Image

Then, back onto the boat it went, along with the new laminated strut.

Image

How will it work? I don't know -- but I guess I'll find out sometime after launching. :wink:

Tom
Bob Noodat
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:56 pm
Home Port: Stuart Lake BC

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by Bob Noodat »

Nice work, interesting experiment Tom.

Yours does have a concave in it, effectively, since the original rudder starts fat and then fines down. Yours actually looks rather closer to the concept than the examples shown in the Wikipedia article.

I hope you have records of speed and fuel consumption at given rpm for comparison.
BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
DesertAlbin736
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:58 pm
Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by DesertAlbin736 »

Cool! You've been a busy boy! Should give a boost to "rudder kicks" for tight maneuvering.
La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
motthediesel
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
Home Port: Thousand Islands NY

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by motthediesel »

DesertAlbin736 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:46 pm Cool! You've been a busy boy! Should give a boost to "rudder kicks" for tight maneuvering.
It’s a case of “shelter at home — shop” :wink:
User avatar
sail149
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
Location: Eastern PA

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by sail149 »

So your boat must be an early /transition version as the molded shape rudder without an attached shoe were changed to flat plate rudders with shoe fairly early in the 2nd production run. For what it's worth the size of the rudder on the A27 is huge compared to higher speed boats who are trying to reduce drag but loose effective steering at slow (A27) speeds.
Your results will I hope be interesting . Cheers Warren
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
Bob Noodat
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:56 pm
Home Port: Stuart Lake BC

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by Bob Noodat »

Of course a person could add an extension to the rudder à la catboat:


American-2.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. To view images, please register for a free account.
BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
User avatar
sail149
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
Location: Eastern PA

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by sail149 »

Pretty picture but they are very ineffective rudders espically as the boat heels! The little boat in the back ground is a much better design.
😃
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
Bob Noodat
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:56 pm
Home Port: Stuart Lake BC

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by Bob Noodat »

But A27s don't heel much.
BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
User avatar
sail149
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
Location: Eastern PA

Re: A Schilling rudder

Post by sail149 »

Bob Noodat wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:52 pm But A27s don't heel much.
Bob agreed but a rudder is much more efficient when the chord ( for and aft length) is short , and depth is better for more effect. Look at the rudders on hispeed sailboats where they want to minimize drag with max efficiency even when sailing flat. 😁
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
Post Reply

Return to “A25 / A27 - True Classics”