Bedding glass windows

[JT48348]

Someone who has done their side sliding windows: what is on the verticle edges of the wood frame?

I'm replacing the horizontal top and bottom tracks with Beckson Channel #2 plastic channel for 1/4" glass. But I don't remember what's on the veryicle sides. Thanks

[tego]

Joe, Mine have the metal track but it's notched and bent to the correct angle for the vertical. If you do likewise, you will automatically line up correctly when you close the glass. Mine are original but I have replaced the plastic slider surface at the base of the channel. Ben

[JT48348]

Ben, are you saying the metal channel goes all the way around the inside of the frame-- all sides?

I still have my metal tracks but they in bad shape. Where did you get the slider material?

[tego]

Yes, the track goes on all 4 sides on mine. I got my thin , about 3/8" wide strips from McMaster Carr. It was a roll about 25' long. I used it on mine and on my sons trawler also. It was about 3 yrs ago and I no longer have the catalogue or part number. Sorry, Ben

[JT48348]

The glass fits in the frames much better. Clearly epoxying the corners is the way to go for assembly. For sealant I chose Dow 795 silicon which is an industrial silicon used for installing glass windows on sky scrappers. It has a very high expansion/flexibility and adhesion rate. You can buy it from Amazon. It is a better replacement than the West Marine silicon and it's cheaper, like $8. The reason the pilothouse windows should be bedded in silicon rather than some other sealant is because you're bonding glass to wood, which is the same as old time windows. Glazing for those types of windows is silicon. It allows the glass to be removed if it gets damaged. The entire wooden frame with glass installed can then be sealed to the pilothouse using 3m 4200.

One tube of 795 did both port & starboard front pilothouse windows and probably the center.

[JT48348]

Apply a second bead to the glass and lip edge. This is where the teak casing pieces with screw in and hold the glass pane in place

The silicon will ooze out once everything is in place. Let it dry and then trim the excess off with a knife

[JT48348]

Pilothouse windows re-bedded. The silicon cleaned up very nice.

Couple of notes on the Dow 795: make sure the shelf date of the tube is within the time frame you're using it. This silicon cures fully within 7-14 days, tack free in 3 hours. The extra silicon squished out cleans up with a trim razor easily.

[sail149]

image.jpeg

JT
That's a really good job and I think the silicone will hold up well for you.
Just had a look at the mess on my boat and the issue I have with your tremendous efforts is five years from now.
How do you stop this happening?
It's so hard to keep varnish sealed espically against a silicone edge where it won't stick. Old (land) house windows are the same problem you are supposed to paint over the glazing onto the window to seal the joint! Ha how long does that last?
I don't know how to do it yet without buying expensive aluminum framed Windows but some how the exposed window frame needs to be a material that needs no finishing. PVC or Starboard type uhmw might be the answer but also a LOT of work. If I do stay with the wood , and I expect I will, I'll paint white possibly over epoxy coating for stability. I don't like the skinny wood look any way. An all white pilot house including the joint with the deck will be a better and more modern look. Good Paint holds up much better than varnish too. Maybe I could use a linear polyurethane over epoxy coated wood.
Cheers

[sail149]

Hi so to understand the front windows I though I would draw a X section of the wood window fames used on the 1984 Albin 27 I have. I expect yours may be similiar
JT how does this compare to yours?

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Here is the side slider window, similiar parts just a little deeper, 1" , for the track.
Note complete lack of caulking under the track allowing water to get between the skins of the outer and inner skins of the pilot house.

image.jpeg

Hope this helps understand what's going on with Windows
Thanks JT for getting me to look at this again.
Cheers

[Sprig1]

Warren that looks like my boat did. I'm on the rebuild phase now. Probably going to do the windows in the coming weeks. Will let everyone know how it turns out.

[JT48348]

Warren: Excellent diagram. That's exactly the setup.

The answer to your peeling varnish question is I Cetoled my frames (exterior only) before I bedded them. The silicon only touches the the unfinished inner lip and the glazing strip not the exterior frame where the Cetol is. To touch it up you mask off the glass with tape and re-apply Cetol. With Cetol you barely have to sand the wood to get a near perfect blend of the new Cetol to old. You also do touch ups as needed every 6-12 months. Don't wait years. That does not look like a Cetol finish on your frames. That looks like peeling varnish, like was on my replacement swim platform. Cetol as it ages will not look like that.

With varnish you have to sand down completely to get new varnish to blend to old. If you have silicon on your frames you need to remove it to fresh bare wood before starting my whole process.

[sail149]

JT
thanks for confirmation on diagram if I can draw it I can understand it.

It looks like varnish to me too but the entire boat had cetol put on it after it had been sitting for a while unsold by the boatyard. it then sat for more years until I jumped in! most of the exterior cetol was peeling (no touch up was done). this left razor edges under the hand rails etc. SO I'm not really a fan of cetol but I think you will keep it up so should be good for you.
Its like all these things , condition is everything and keeping it in good condition is vital to avoid a mess later...like I have! also my frames are very tightly bedded down so I haven't been aboe to remove without getting to the just before breaking point!.

[JT48348]

I'm on the final leg of the pilot house windows. Now it's the sliders. I purchased the Beckson black plastic window channel #2 which fits the original glass perfectly. One thing I noticed is the original metal window channel was not mitered in the corners. It looks like it just acted as a way to hold the glass in place and give it a track to move along.

I'm wondering, does water leak at the corners of the sliders because the channel isn't mitered? On my new install I didn't miter because it's a bear to get everything to fit. Now wondering if I made a mistake, and how water stays out of the corners.

CaptVic once mentioned putting in a "weep hole" on the bottom of the frame. But this would presume drilling from the outside of the frame in to the track and it would need to be at a low spot. Anyone seen or done this?

[tego]

Joe, My corners had a notch cut into the track, then the track was bent so it amounted to a mitered corner. I did have some seepage in the corners but I put some waxed paper on the window glass corner and put a small glob of silicone in the corner and closed the window. After it had set, I opened the window, removed the wax paper and trimmed the excess silicone. My corners don't leak anymore. I do have weep holes in the metal tracks, with holes in the trim to the outside surface. Works great. Ben

[JT48348]

10-4 gotcha