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Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

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hardknox
Deckhand
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Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:33 pm
Home Port: Manistee MI

Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by hardknox »

I've owned a 14' tinnie the last several years. After one day of running the outboard motor with the family on the Maumee River, I removed the motor and rowed it for miles on small lakes in Ohio. Now I've moved to Michigan, and looking for a boat that can handle the Great Lakes, for cruising and fishing. I do not want to go fast. I figure that once I am onboard my boat, I have arrived at my destination.

Boats that I've considered so far are as follows, in order of my own discovery:

Ranger Tugs 25
Ranger Tugs 21
C-Dory 22
Trusty 23
Willard 30
Albin 25

I made this little graph of time and money spent on a 300 mile trip, such as from Manistee to Mackinac Island and back, to help decide which boat is best. The y axis is money spent on $4/gal. fuel. The x axis is total hours cruising on the water.

Image

Even though I discovered the Albin 25 last, it is my current favorite, and I am seriously considering the purchase of one.

If the Trusty 23 were available in the US, it would probably top my list, over the Albin. Alas, the T23 is in Britain, and expensive to ship across the Atlantic, and too small to motor across. I've already contacted the factory, and they said others here in the US have inquired, but found shipping expenses prohibitive.

Luckily, the Albins have already migrated.
WillieC
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:48 am
Home Port: Hood Canal, WA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by WillieC »

What a great list of boats, sounds like something I might put together...not sure I understand the graph completely, but it is a nice graph. My old eyes had me looking at the Ranger 25, thinking it was the Albin 25.

And Welcome to AOG! Last summer, son, grandson and I flew out to PA just for the heck of it. Toward the end of the flight we ended up flying over some big water, like horizon to horizon water. Those lakes are big. We like hopping from anchorage to marina, shorter trips maybe 5 hours max, though we did a 15 hour jaunt last summer on our way home. Too long, but we found out, once again that our A25 was up to more than we were. I think she could smell the barn and wanted to go the final five hours and we just wanted to hit the restaurant at Pleasant Harbor. (They close earlier on Sunday so we missed it anyway. Should have kept going.)

You will get lots of enjoyment from the A25. Keep looking for the good one. They do require maintenance, but it is a boat. No news there. Welcome!
DesertAlbin736
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:58 pm
Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by DesertAlbin736 »

Welcome aboard! Ranger & Nordic Tugs would be great, but they are very high dollar. A member of our local Lake Pleasant AZ sailing club has a C-Dory 25, a step up from the 22. If I recall correctly the outboard it has is a Honda, either 135 or 150, I'm not sure which. It also has a 9 horse trolling/kicker motor. A planing boat with an open aft cockpit & large pilot house with galley & dinette & a low ceiling vee berth up in the bow. Very nice & seaworthy boats, but again, a high dollar price tag in the upper 5 figures.
Our boat's average fuel burn rate is between 0.4 to 0.5 gallons per hour at a full displacement hull speed of 6.5 knots at 2,350 RPM on the 24 HP Yanmar 3GM30F turning a 16 1/2 X 12 prop. That works out to better than 13 NM per gallon, a figure few boats other than a similar sized sailboat can match.

There are lots of pictures on the internet to get an idea of what Albin 25's look like inside & out. The main points to be aware of is that there were two variants, the early full displacement hulls built between 1969 and 1973 or '74, and the later ones built after 1974 which were designated "DeLuxe". The later DeLuxe models were an attempt to achieve higher speeds with a 'semi-displacement' hull in which the last 4 or so feet of the bottom was flared downward, and the OEM engine HP was raised to 36, or in some cases where they were repowered by owners later on with 38 to 40 HP engines. Original engines were Albin's own two cylinder AD21's in the frist few years, then in later boats switched various models of Volvo engines through the end of the production run. Also, as round hull boats they do have a tendency to sharply snap roll 15 degrees to one side & 15 degrees to the other in rough beam seas, so hopefully you're not prone to seasickness.

Here's the basic difference between the early displacement models (like ours):
DSCN3631.JPG
And the later DeLuxe version, in this case a 1977
Albin (1280x960).jpg
In any case any Albin 25 you're likely to find will be a least 40 years old, on up to 48 years, and each one is different in one way or another from a myriad of owner modifications made over the years and in many cases have been re-powered at some point, sometimes with Volvo engines, other times with Yanmar, Beta, Universal, Vetus to name a few. Most if not all boats will have bow pulpit rails. Many do not have stern rails, and of those that do the older ones have stern rails that run the full width of the transom, later ones have split stern rails like the one shown in the 2nd photo of the 1977 model. A few boats have full length life lines running bow to stern like ours does, but many do not. With the possible exception of the Willard, they are also much more rare & difficult to find than Rangers, Nordics, or C-Dorys.

Happy hunting!
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La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
hardknox
Deckhand
Deckhand
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:33 pm
Home Port: Manistee MI

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by hardknox »

Well, I went and looked at one on Friday. Deluxe model with a 20 h.p. Yanmar. I also looked at a Willard 30. Both unfortunately have osmotic blistering; what I've read at David Pascoe's yachtsurvey.com site is that it isn't a serious structural problem.

All you tall guys, how do you fare on the A25? My wife is favoring the Willard, because it seems like a mansion compared to the Albin, and we're both tall folks. I can lay down in the aft cabin berth (I labeled it beds) all stretched out, which is nice, but there isn't much other place to stand tall and stretch my back. I did the following color analysis of spaces to show my wife how the Albin has almost equal servings of necessities, minus the Willard's free-to roam deck space. (She's in health care, so anything to do with the digestive tract, i.e., alimentary canal, both ends of it, is under a single label.) :)

Image

I'm still favoring the Albin, maybe just because I've listened to a Yanmar purr for the last 18 years in my John Deere, and love how miserly they are with fuel. For any folks who found my 300 mile time (in hours) and money chart confusing, I found a better way to present comparisons of fuel and speed of boats, by using logarithmic scales for both axes, which keeps the charted lines being all lumped together in an indecipherable L. I've added boats that I wouldn't actually buy, but included them just for comparison.

Image
WillieC
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:48 am
Home Port: Hood Canal, WA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by WillieC »

I would love a Willard 30, but I started this boating thing too late. Comparing the Albin and the Willard, for us, would come down to money. I went straight to the $60K Willards in a heartbeat and we don't want to pay that much at one time. However, a few thou here and a few thou there, we may be well on our way with the A25. (I exaggerate, a bit.)

Blistering, eh? I have heard that can be an issue with the Willards, but this is the first I've heard of an A25 with acne. I scraped our bottom down to bare gelcoat last winter and could have waxed it up and moved on. Which is how they must have come from the factory because that 45 YO paint come off like no surface prep was ever contemplated under previous bottom paints. When I started the bottom paint, like too many things in my blue sky Pollyanna life, with the thought, "How hard can this be?" Of course, this and blister repair, which done right can be put to rest, are easily solved by writing checks. (For me, QC would be the big issue. You want it done and done. Zero Callbacks to the yard. Good luck.)

Now, headroom. And stretching out and alimentary canals and all that....
I am 5-10 and I often whack my head on the passageway down to the galley only because I get in a hurry and lead with my head and don't pay attention. This is good for keeping your salty language skills intact. This issue is why I spent some time this winter trying to figure ways to better use the pilot house. I made a home for the cooler that holds ice for ten days, ya sure you betcha, and I made the helm seat reversible with the longer goal of trying to come up with a simple convertible sleeping space in that area. I will ponder this all summer on our Northern Venture to Desolation Sound. (Our A25 has the New, Improved, BC Hardtop, not the original canvas lean-to arrangement. I have seen, not up-close, full hard side enclosures built by those hardy Canadian pioneers. With slight modifications, one could reasonably install a bowling alley in the basement.) The possibilities, while not endless, will all take time, money and compromises that come free with the Willard.

Carry on and keep us posted!
DesertAlbin736
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Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by DesertAlbin736 »

I concur with WIllieC. I'm also 5' 10", and there is plenty of head room up to 6 ft in the wheelhouse/cockpit area, not counting the deck under the helm seat which is level with the top of the engine box. Head room in the main forward cabin is 5' 9", plenty for anyone of that height or less and a small amount of stooping for me. Our record for number of continuous days afloat living on the boat is 46, and but for the lack of on board shower were very comfortable, and at least half of those days or more were anchored out & not at a marina dock.

Here I am standing at the galley in the main cabin, not quite able to stand up straight, but my wife at 5' 3" has no trouble.
DSCN1581.JPG
The door & step down from into the main cabin is a bit tight.
DSCN3673.JPG

Some folks like to use the aft cabin quarter berths for sleeping but we like the main cabin with the center insert that makes the settees into a very roomy V berth, and the 4 inch foam cushions are very comfortable. It's usually just the two of us & we use the aft cabin to stow luggage.
DSCN3634.JPG
20180312_080838_resized.jpg
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La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
hardknox
Deckhand
Deckhand
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:33 pm
Home Port: Manistee MI

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by hardknox »

Thank you for the headroom photo! It's not as roomy as the Willard, but still more spacious than a pickup. :D

Ignoring the sage advice that one should not buy the first boat upon which they've laid eyes, I've made an offer on the Albin 25.

Does anybody ever go through the USCG Vessel Documentation for an Albin 25? Does it meet the minimum 5 net ton limit?

I have no trailer, and if my offer is accepted, I plan on sailing her 600 miles to home port in Manistee. Is the Waterway Guide's Great Lakes 2018 chartbook adequate for a trip on the Great Lakes? Are the Richardson's chartbooks better? I figure 10 to 12 days sailing, 50 to 60 miles per day.

I'll take my bicycle with a Coke bottle tote on the aft rack for shopping in ports along the way.

BoatUS has an "unlimited freshwater boat towing membership" that seems prudent for Great Lakes cruising, especially since they have a facility in Manistee. Their coverage appears a little sparse in Lake Huron.

There are lots of things to think about that I've never thought about before.
WillieC
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Home Port: Hood Canal, WA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by WillieC »

YOU BOUGHT THE FIRST ONE YOU SAW??!!

so did I...

Tell us about it! Our first trip, similar to yours, was a mere 100 miles on the water to get it to our home. What I have learned, and repaired, on this boat, I am amazed it ever made it. This is a good reminder to myself: there can be plenty things wrong with the boat and it might still get you where you are going. So with that thought...good luck on your maiden voyage! We didn't even bother with towing insurance. We did, however cajole the PO into coming with us, since we were absolutely green pea mariners. Our little jaunt took parts of three days, the same trip which we accomplished in two days last summer. Part of my thinking was that if the PO was willing to make a November trip on the Puget Sound in a boat he already had cash in hand for...the boat must be in pretty good shape. A poor man's survey. Rather, a stupid man's wishful thinking. Pooled ignorance masquerading as deep insight. All of which points back to the original quality of the A25 design, which I appreciate more and more with each season. You may end up towing the boat the whole way, but you are on the cusp of a great adventure! Congratulations! And I mean it.

Rereading your post, I see you have only made an offer. I hope it is low, but ours wasn't. Dumb...but they aren't laying around in every marina either. So many things go into these purchases. I advise all who ask to keep looking for the good one and plan on paying for it. Exactly NOT what I have done. I have been through almost every square inch of our boat and I now know it like the back-o-me-hand, as my dad used to say whenever we crossed him. It all depends on your situation, your aptitudes, your risk factor, willingness to learn, previous mechanical experience, even if non-boat related. It's all nuts and bolts. Tools, lots of tools from every trade. Ability to sift wheat from chaff on the interweb. And mainly your pocketbook, and time. Double or triple the pocketbook and farm it all out. Which provides absolutely no help when the engine ground wire rusts off the rounded off bolt way down under the starter that you can't even find wedged in there next to the oil saturated engine mount. (I welded on a shiny new ground stud up out of the bilge easily accessed for inspection and maintenance. At least three starters came with our boat and they all work perfectly...things you learn by doing, not throwing money at it.)

I wish you the best. Oh the places you'll go!
hardknox
Deckhand
Deckhand
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:33 pm
Home Port: Manistee MI

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by hardknox »

I've sent my deposit now, and it looks like we'll be closing on the boat in about 3 weeks. Meanwhile, I've emptied my barn in Ohio, and brought all my ancient-but-never-quit-running Craftsman tools I inherited from my grandfather like a drill press, table saw, and band saw, and unloaded them haphazardly for now into my backyard shed in Michigan. They'll be good for future projects on the A25.

I've downloaded OpenCPN and started planning the 600 mile trip around Michigan, inserting waypoints for all the Michigan DNR Harbors. Since I've got only a 20 hp engine, I'm a little bit worried about that 4 knot current in the St. Clair River rapids. :o

Mickael Franzen's youtube channel has two great Albin 25 videos that I've enjoyed watching several times. The anticipation is delicious!
DesertAlbin736
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Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA

Re: Newbie in Manistee on Lake Michigan

Post by DesertAlbin736 »

Awesome! Tell us more about the boat, what model year, engine, owner mods, etc. If it's the early model hull, pre 1973, which it likely is with 20 hp engine, then your cruising speed is 6 to 6.5 knots & 0.4 to 0.5 GPH fuel burn rate. That gives you better than 13 nautical MPG. Should be able to do 600 miles on less than 50 gallons of fuel.
La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
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