28TE rudder angle

[Nancy]

We're getting a lot better at docking our boat, but close quarters handling is definitely not the strong suit of this vessel! Today, one of our dockmates came aboard - a very capable helmsman with about 70 years of experience. He presently owns a 37' +/- Duffy - beautiful boat. The wind was blowing 12-15 knots straight down the fairway, and we went out to see what useful maneuvering tips he could come up with.

My friend was surprised that the turning radius of the Albin is significantly greater than his single screw Duffy. When he looked at the steering gear, he made an interesting observation: the steering cylinder and piston are such that the rudder only swings about 30 degrees from the fore to aft center line of the boat in either direction. We believe maneuverability would be hugely improved if the rudder angle were 45 degrees from the center line.

So my questions are these:

• Is this small rudder angle typical of all 28's? Or was the design changed at some point?
  
  Has anyone modified their steering mechanism to provide a greater rudder angle? Looking at a photo of our running gear when it was on the hard, it seems like this might be possible.

[RobS]

I don't think my steering angle is any greater but can you post a picture or two looking down on your rudder arm and steering cylinder. And one with the wheel hard-over.

You do have a bow thruster, right

[Nancy]

Here are the photos with the wheel hard over in both directions.

Yes, we have a bow thruster, but it's very small when fighting a 15-knot breeze at 90 degrees to the bow. What's worse is that after using it 4-5 times for 20 seconds at 10-second intervals, it overheats and doesn't work at all for several minutes. We're wondering if we can get a bigger motor without making a bigger hole in the bottom of the boat.

steering gear-2-071912-1200.jpg

steering gear-1-071912-1200.jpg

[waterhound]

Nancy, i did a few things to address overheat issues with the thruster. First, I had the brushes in the motor replaced - they were *done* and I was suffering from the same issue you were - overheat, arcing, loss of power.

Second, I replaced the thruster prop with the Vetus 6-blade one. This appears to be more effective/efficient as I get better thrust from it (I don't have any hard evidence other than pushing off the fuel dock in a 15knt cross wind is now possible) but the motor hasn't (fingers crossed) overheated yet.

Lastly, I did some updates to the electrical system - the windlass, bow thruster and engine start are now completely isolated (isolation relay) from the house. I'm fairly certain that the thruster now has more consistent power from just one of the batteries rather than both - perhaps this keeps the overheat possibility lower with slightly less current, but the thing still works effectively. I'm really pleased with this change as now the current draw by the big motors doesn't cause the electronics to hiccup either - this really should have been done this way from the start.

[RobS]

Things have certainly changed back there over the years. Your cylinder is on a block glassed into the hull, passes over a notched out stringer and mounts to the tiller below the height of the cross member. On my 2000 the cylinder is mounted to a powdercoated L bracket bolted through the stringer, passes over the stringer and connects to a tiller mounted to the rudder post/shaft on top of the cross member. Not that this has anything to do with rudder angle, just an observation.

Well there are no rudder stops/blocks so the throw of the cylinder (approx. 3.5" each side of center) is the limiting factor. Not much you can do there. You can verify this by taking the bolt out and moving the rudder by hand each way and turning the wheel and checking the throw of the cylinder.

[Nancy]

WH, thanks for all the ideas on the bow thruster. We'll take a look at the brushes. Where did you find replacements? Wondering if these are a standard motor item or something special.

Rob, yes, the cylinder throw is definitely the limiting factor, and yes, it's 3.5". That's why we're wondering about the feasibility of replacing it with a larger one. We'd have to install a new block outboard of the existing one.
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Editing this a little later...

I've just talked to H&H Propeller, who supplied skegs and rudders to Albin. They told me that a higher rudder angle could cause the boat to capsize in a sharp turn at high speed. In fact, when the flush deck first came out, they had the rudder at a 45 degree angle. The guy I talked to was aboard during a sea trial....they turned the boat, and the bow went under water. A real thrill a minute! After that, Albin went to a small rudder and put in stops. He also told me that a 45-deg angle could cause the rudder post to break when in reverse and then of course the prop would fall out. Uh, no thanks!

[jcollins]

What's worse is that after using it 4-5 times for 20 seconds at 10-second intervals, it overheats and doesn't work at all for several minutes

Nancy - I have the same year as you. It's been a few years since I read through the Vetus manual but I recall it saying you should have up to 3 minutes on the thruster before it overheats.

[Nancy]

John, yes, the 23kgf Vetus thruster is supposed to run for about 2.5 minutes before timing out. We'll be checking voltage and brushes to start with. Really like the idea of a 6-blade prop on it, too.

[DougSea]

John, yes, the 23kgf Vetus thruster is supposed to run for about 2.5 minutes before timing out. We'll be checking voltage and brushes to start with. Really like the idea of a 6-blade prop on it, too.

It sure sounds like there's an issue there. Our 23kgf unit would run for at least a full 90 seconds without any problem. Did a 180 with the thruster one time after running softly aground in Cape May.

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to get the 6 blade prop. I had tried and it was only available for the 25, not the 23.

[waterhound]

Vetus can provide you with the brushes. Get the serial number & model number off the motor and call them. I think they were around a hundred dollars. I had my marina install them.

I've been very pleased with the thruster ever since. I especially like the look on dock hands faces when they think you're going to auger in to the pier and you slide in gracefully.

[Nancy]

Thanks, WH, will do.

I especially like the look on dock hands faces when they think you're going to auger in to the pier and you slide in gracefully.

Ha ha, yes. My dockmates mostly throw up their hands when I pull in and remark how I never need them. But I always thank them for being there anyway because you never know when that unexpected puff of wind will blow the bow off at the last moment....usually just when the bow thruster decides to poop out.

[RobS]

You can reach Vetus at 410.712.0740. Ask them what the spec is on the brush length. You can then take them out and measure them and see if they really need replacing. I checked the brushes on my model 50kgf unit in 2007 when I bought my year 2000 TE. They were almost the full length of new ones. I think it was about 28mm but don't quote me on that. They were original and, FWIW, I bought my boat with 440 engine hours. You may also be able to get Vetus to give you the Bosch part number for the brushes and then you can just get them from a electric motor parts supplier and save a few bucks.

[Nancy]

Thanks, Rob. Great photos as always! We've pulled the motor and are taking it to an electric motor guy today to have him go through it. Voltage is fine at the bow thruster with the motor running, so at least we've ruled out a power supply problem.

[RobS]

Sounds good. Anytime you can get something boat-related done by a non-boating vendor it certainly eases the pain on the pocketbook!

[DougSea]

Voltage is fine at the bow thruster with the motor running, so at least we've ruled out a power supply problem.

Hi Nancy,

Do you mean with the thruster motor running? Or the engine? I ask because proper voltage doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have a problem with undersized wiring or a corroded connection. The thruster pulls a fairly massive amount of current (in relative terms) so all may seem ok, but you've still got an issue when the amps start flowing. Also, the alternator certainly helps, but it's really the batteries that supply the needed juice so knowing which one your thruster pulls from and making sure it's in good shape is important.

Hope, as Rob notes, that this proves simple and fixable by a non-marine source!!

Smooth sailing!